John grew up in December 1167. He was at the most 21 and you will possibly more youthful than if their daughter Joanna was born. She may well had been the fresh new oldest of all of the youngsters he fathered of the his some mistresses.

1187 Summer - John when you look at the France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 Jan. 31 - Henry production to help you England, possibly having John into the tow 1188 June - Henry sends John back to Normandy, crosses out of 1189 June 12 - John from the Le Mans when disarmed because of the Henry's acquisition, following John fled otherwise is added aside having shelter 1189 July six - Henry I passes away in France 1189 Aug. twelve - Richard brings John back to The united kingdomt which have your 1189 Aug. 29 - John married to Isabelle out-of Gloucester on Marlebridge 1189 September. 3 - Richard crowned in the Westminster Abbey 1189 Oct. - Richard sends John on Wales in order to subdue the fresh edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to help you Normandy and you will forced toward oath to not ever put foot toward England for three decades 1190 June - Richard continues on crusade [John getaways his oath] For our motives, it is considered that one months, as well as the extremely probably going back to Joanna for become developed, is the 1187-nine months. 1187 - John spends practically the year inside the France 1188 - John could have returned to The united kingdomt within the January, however, of the june is distributed to France, in which he appears to have stayed 1189 - John appears to be from inside the France January - August, returning so you can The united kingdomt from inside the August in preparation for his wedding into the 30 Aug. If the John produced no more unrecorded returns to England, it seems that he spent on 80% out-of their go out of January 1187 until their marriage, in France . He was will eventually because of the State regarding Mortain, in Normandy (in advance of Richard's coronation).

These guidance, given the several months in addition to undeniable fact that Joanna is brought so you're able to The united kingdomt out-of France in the 1203 to possess their unique relationships to sexy Kula girl Llywelyn, gives credence to the idea that Joanna along with her mommy had been regarding French/Norman resource.

Given and additionally John's better-understood philandering during this time, there seems to be of numerous candidates into character off mom off Joanna!

Just after a unique much time look but not, I am able to see no shade out-of a Clemence de Dauntsey for the the brand new facts

My earlier in the day blog post offered every piece of information you to definitely Paget showed that it is actually Clemence de Dauntsey, exactly who hitched Nicholas de Verdun. We considered that it was the brand new Nicholas and you can Clementia to just who Henry 111 supplied the fresh child custody out-of Susanna (just like the a great hostage) from inside the 1228. I did pick although not, the newest viewpoint of one genealogist exactly who clearly mentioned it…’ I believe that individuals (the fresh genealogists) have established there was zero for example individual just like the Clemence de Dauntsey. That personality of one’s wife from Nicholas de Verdun was a beneficial blunder of the Paget!’

Clemence ce Boteler was created regarding the 1175 from inside the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire

I’m happy to believe that conclusion, because further investigation of ideas of second Clemence turned-out far more fruitful.

Clemence le Boteler hitched Nicholas de Verdun inside 1202 (his second spouse immediately following their matrimony to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, this wedding isn’t shown) at Alton, Staffordshire and got one young child, Rohese de- Verdun who was produced when you look at the 1203 or 1205 (died. Feb 1247).

When the, in reality, Joanna was caused by good liaison anywhere between John and you will Clemence ce Boteler (who had been aged as much as fourteen-15 at that time), it might were very difficult to the Ce Boteler family relations locate the ideal partner for Clemence. In reality certain 10 years ticket before an effective ily?) having a trusting English nobleman and you will property owner, Nicholas de Verdun. Leaving out for now the possibility that Nicholas had fallen in love with the 27 yr old Clemence and you may wished to get married their unique, it might was indeed essential for John to add Clemence with certain assets away from her very own to ensure she turned into a glamorous award for their unique husband to be.